condiment emergency present itself as it often does. the catch ep guy called 911 during this brouhaha and by the time the police arrived the sandwich artist had left the building. nonetheless i would like to point out this makes the second time we heard about somebody calling the police due to a sandwich-based situation. roll the call. >> i am a greatful deli, and i specifically asked for little turkey and little ham and a lot of cheese and a lot of man as and they giving me a hard time. i was wondering if you could just stop by. i was just wondering if you could just -- >> you're calling 911 because you don't like the way that they're making your sandwich? >> exactly. >> so then don't buy it. >> great advice 911 operator. if you don't like the way someone is making your sandwich, don't call 911. just don't buy it. when all else fails, speak softly and carry catch up

bottle. that's it for us. "erin burnett outfront" starts right now. "outfront" next, president obama gears up for his next fight with republicans. this time, it's over his defense secretary nominee. >> plus days after our taxes went up, some democrats said we need more taxes, higher taxes. yes, we're going to get answers. >> and more details about the aurora theater massacre. for the first time, police describe the scene and what they found when they first saw james holmes. let's go "outfront." good evening, everyone. i'm erin burnett. "outfront" tonight, saving sergeant hagel. president obama raring for a fight over his defense secretary nominee. you may say why there a fight? on paper, this guy is pretty incredible. looks like he would be a lock for a job that usually is one with pretty much 100% of the senate voting aye.

military experience, check that box. he would be the first enlisted man and first vietnam vet to serve as secretary of defense, he was wounded in combat and he earned two purple hearts. business and management experience, after all, the pentagon is a huge organization. check. hagel cofounded a company called van guard cellular systems which made him a multimillionaire. and knowing how to get things done in washington. check on that. hagel served two terms as a u.s. senator from nebraska and served as deputy administrator of the veterans administration. plus he's a republican nominated by a democrat, so it sounds pretty perfect, right? today, president obama told the nation why he loved chuck hagel. >> in the senate, i came to admire his courage and his judgment, his willingness to speak his mind, even if it wasn't popular. even if it defied the conventional wisdom. >> his willingness to speak his mind, no, is part of what's getting him in trouble with members of both parties.

david frum is with us and also with us doug wilson, form pentagon senior spokesman for president obama. he has been criticized for using the term jewish lobby. he used it in a 2006 interview and here is what he said, quote, the political reality is that the jewish lobby intimidates a lot of people up here. i have always argued against the dumb things they do because i don't think it is in the interest of israel. i just don't think it is smart for israel. some say chuck hagel owes an apology for that. after all, not all jews support what israel does. there could be an israeli lobby and that could be different from an jewish lobby. does hagel have to explain himself? >> well, i don't want to parse a every phrase a nominee has used. many people use unfortunate phrases and go on to be

excellent nominees. the problem with chuck hagel is not a phrase. the problem with chuck hagel is a consistent attitude. the next secretary of defense will be -- will likely to have deal with two basic types of issues at the top of the inbox. the first is managing a defense build down, if the sequester goes into effect, a very dramatic defense build down. you need someone with excellent military management experience, which chuck hagel does not have. i think you were too kind to him in the opening presentation. the second challenge will be the challenge of iran. we are probably coming to the extreme decision point where iran in the four years ahead. and chuck hagel has shown himself again and again very credulous on what you can achieve by negotiating with iran. at this point, almost everybody's eyes have been opened to the impossibility of arriving at a negotiated solution, and yet chuck hagel has insisted that such solutions are reachable with iran, hamas, and hezbollah. the question arises is he hard headed enough.

is he tough minded enough? it is one thing if he disagrees with everybody. if you disagree with everyone and you're wrong, being wrong by yourself is no improvement over being wrong in a group. >> let me ask you about iran. since david raises that point. hagel voted against sanctions. he said he's for multilateral sanctions, but he voted against unilateral sanctions. he voted against recognizing the iranian revolutionary guard corps as a terrorist organization. that was well outside the mainstream. the senate voted 76-22 in favor of that, and in 2006, to david's point, hagel said, and i'll quote him in part, i would say a military strike against iran, a military option, is not a viable, feasible, responsible option. i believe a political settlement will be the answer, not a military settlement. since then, he has tempered his point of view. in an op-ed as recently as september, he said war with iran is not inevitable. u.s. security is seriously threatened by a nuclear armed iran. is he really outside the mainstream on iran? >> i have to say i have served three different periods at the pentagon over the last 15 years.

and there's an expression at the pentagon called hair on fire. when people get all excited over essentially little or nothing, and when the dust settles, you're able to deal with the facts. i think people should be very proud of this nomination of senator hagel. he brings to this not only experience as a veteran, as someone who served in uniform, but as somebody who understands the reality of the world. with regard to his position on iran and on sanctions, he's made clear that he supports this president and he supports the toughest multilateral sanctions that have ever been imposed on this country -- on that country. >> should we not care if his personal views run contrary? especially when it comes to, benjamin netanyahu says there's a six-month time period, some say it could be longer. there has to be a decision made on iran. it doesn't matter what he personally would do as long as he does what the president has already said he would do which is military options on the

table? >> we ought to respect the fact that the president has chosen him as a nominee because he knows he's going to get his honest views, because he knows he's going to get his complete loyalty, and he knows he has served in uniform and he's been in battle, and he understands war is a last resort and the united states will put all options on the table and will become involved militarily when it needs to become involved, but we have to understand what the implications of that are, and he understands that personally. and i think that he represents the vast majority of military leaders in that regard. >> you know, david, one follow on this. in an interview in march of this year, chuck hagel talking about a war, he said they escalate, they always do and they always will. i don't think we're necessarily locked into two options. in a sense it was a very wise thing to say. sometimes we create false choices, war or no war. is he being nuanced and thoughtful? >> we all want to avoid war in iran. everybody wants to avoid that.

it is really a bad option. but to what doug just said, secretaries of defense do not merely execute orders from the president. they are conduits -- they advise the president, and they shape the options that are available to the president. some information reached the president, other information does not reach the president. if you have a strongly opinionated secretary of defense, which chuck hagel would be, who has strong views on the question of iran, and he's told us what they are, it is a very realistic fear that what the president will hear will be shaped by his secretary of defense's views. and that quote you just read, we don't know, god forbid, if there is a military confrontation with iran, we don't know what that will look like. you can devise scenarios that are very frightening, you can devise scenarios that are less frightening. the secretary of defense may have some interest in putting the most frightening scenarios

before the president because they will deter presidential action and holding back the more optimistic scenarios. >> i want to go to one issue. this isn't about policy, but it is a policy that is relevant to the defense department which has been dealing with gays and lesbians in the military, and it's also a very important thing in terms of values. want to bring in gregory angelo. gregory, the lob cabin republicans put a full page ad out opposing hagel in the "washington post." in 1998, he called james hormel, who was then president clinton's choice for the president of luxembourg openly gay, and he said his sexual orientation, i will quote him again, would prevent him from doing a good job. he recently apologized. he said he thought the apology was insincere and subsequently put out a statement saying the timing appears to be self serving but he believes the words are unequivocal and they are a clear apology.

is there anything hagel can do to change your mind as something out there fighting for gay rights in america? >> it's unlikely. it's not just a matter of the statements chuck hagel said about hormel. we're looking at his entire record. in the apology he asked everyone to look at the totality of his record when it came to gay and lesbian issues. and what our washington post issue looks at is his issues. the defense of same-sex marriage, and also his references to don't ask don't tell, saying he would be opposed to repeal because it would be social experimentation, and that has no place in the military. long cabin republicans has spent a significant amount of time and a significant amount of money working for repeal of don't ask don't tell in 2010, and right now what we need in our next secretary of defense is someone who can smoothly implement don't ask don't tell. >> can they call someone openly aggressively gay accidently without being pe jor active? >> anything is possible, but he apologized for what he said, so

clearly he felt bad about it, if you call it an apology. it is worth noting that that apology was only issued after his name was floated as nominee for secretary of defense. you have to wonder about the timing and when hormel accepted the apology, he said it was a self-serving statement although it was something he did accept. >> let me give you a chance to respond about this. you have been open about your sexuality. what do you think about his comment, openly, aggressively gay. >> he apologized for that comment and a number of groups have accepted that apology, including the human rights campaign. i have to pay tribute to the log cabin republicans who were instrumental in helping get the repeal of don't ask don't tell, but i disagree with them and with the ad. i'm the first -- i was the first openly gay senior official to serve at the pentagon. and i have seen the evolution of views and part of the reason that don't ask don't tell

succeeded on the floor of the senate is that there had been an evolution of views and there were votes by members of the senate who had similar records of senator hagel who voted for the repeal. senator hagel has made clear that he supports fully the full implementation of the repeal of don't ask don't tell and lgtb family members and he will have an opportunity, i hope, if confirmed, to demonstration that with that full support. >> thank you so much to all three of you, and everyone, please let us know what you think about chuck hagel's views on these three issues and others. going to be a crucial nomination for this cabinet. still to come, just days ago the fiscal cliff raised all of our taxes, but some democrats say it's not enough, so they want to raise taxes more. how much more and on whom? yeah, we're probably talking about you. plus, new jersey governor chris christie gets high marks from voters in his home state. why that could make him the candidate for 2016. and new details in the sandy

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our second story "outfront," raising your taxes a lot more. the ink is barely dry on the bill to avert the fiscal cliff. it raised dividends and capital gains and limited the amt that affected many americans, not just those at the top and already some democrats are pushing for tax revenues up up to a trillion dollars to be part of the upcoming debate. joining us, robert reich and richard moore. robert reich, let me start with you because all of the tax revenue from the fiscal cliff deal adds up to about $600 billion over ten years.

relative to our debt problem, that's not even a drop in the proverbial bucket. but here we are with the democrats after taxes went up on a whole list of things, they want as much as twice as much money in taxes. for real, they think they're going to get it? >> they're going to try to gets it. i don't know any republicans or democrats who want to raise taxes for the sake of more taxes. this is all in anticipation of a very, very large budget deficit in the out years. if we don't get more revenues, we're going to have to cut more into military spending, social security, infrastructure, all of the public investments we have in this country. the whole purpose of trying to get more tax revenue and hopefully trying to get more tax revenue from wealthiest americans rather than from middle class and poor americans is so government can do a lots of things americans want government to do. >> i want to ask you where that money is going to come, but first, steven, let me come to you. here is the president and house minority leader nancy pelosi.

this week on this issue. >> the wealthiest individuals and biggest corporations shouldn't be able to take advantage of loopholes that aren't available to most americans. >> are you then saying to the upper classes, get ready, you're going to have to pay some more? this is not the end of it? >> i'm saying that's not off the table. >> so, can the republicans stop this or not? they're going to push for more. >> erin, i think you read the book, called "republicans are from venus, democrats are from mars." what is happening is the two parties are completely talking past each other. the republicans. mitch mcconnell this weekend and obviously other key republicans including john boehner, the speaker, said the democrats have had their tax increase, they're done. as you said, the democrats are saying we want another bite of that apple. honestly, i don't think they're going to get it in the next two years. i think the republicans are

pretty almost universally unified they're not going to go for any more taxes. let me just make one other quick point. i was struck by what the president said, you played the clip of saying there are all these loopholes in the tax code and we could raise money if we got rid of them, and all i could think of is who put all of these loopholes in the tax bill that just passed. the wind subsidy, the biggest loophole in the tax bill, which was the enormous subsidy for the wind industry. it's interesting people are saying we have to get rid of the loopholes are the ones who put them in. >> i think we can all agree everybody hates a loophole unless it's their own. interest rates went up, dividends went up, there was a medicare surtax on both of those things. the estate tax was adjusted. payroll tax affected all people in this country. medicare surcharge on income affected the wealthy and a limiting of deductions which means some wealthy lose up to 80% of their deductions.

i know you can always find ways to raise taxes on people but what else can democrats touch? that was an exhaustive list. >> it was an exhaustive list, but the revenue raised was only $600 billion. and $600 billion as you said at the top of the segment is really a drop in the bucket in regards to what we need to do in getting the deficit down. so we're going to have to search for other sources. what are the other sources? for example, mortgage interest deductions, suppose you buy -- you're wealthy enough, you buy a $20 million house. you have a mortgage interest deduction of something in the order of $30,000 or $40,000 or $50,000 a year. well, should that be limited? i think that is a very important question. or take, for example, something we talked about a lot during the election. that is private equity managers and many hedge funds managers

who can treat their income as capital gains, and even the new deal -- >> bob, here is the problem with what you're saying -- >> steve, you'll agree with me on this, i'm sure. >> here is the problem, we agree we should get rid of all of these loopholes. this is interesting, erin, that when mitt romney talked about this in the campaign of putting a cap on these deductions, it was the democrats, people like robert reich, maybe not you personally, but people of your philosophy who said we can't do that. here's the point -- >> we actually do believe -- >> what? >> i don't know why democrats aren't in favor of putting a cap on those deductions. i'm saying if we're going to get something done on this, erin, what is going to have to happen is democrats are going to have to agree to reduce the tax rates in exchange for getting rid of the loopholes. >> or we're going to have to raise taxes on everyone, as npr ran the numbers. if you raise the numbers on 8%

of the middle class, you raise more money than by taxes millionaires. >> there the question is how do you define the beginning and middle of the middle class. is it $75,000 or $110,000 a year? some places around the country, people consider like in the city of san francisco, where i live pretty close to san francisco, people say, well, middle class is probably $120,000 to $140,000 a year. we're going to have to do that kind of calculations, make those kinds of judgments, because undoubtedly, people do not want to cut the military as drastically as even chuck hagel may want to cut it. we are not going to want to cut medicare and social security, and we're not going to want to cut education and roads and bridges. >> very, very quick final point because we have to leave it there. >> this is exactly what we have been saying on the wall street journal editorial board for the last six months. you can't get the money you need to fund all these programs by just taxing the rich. and we have only had this tax

increase on the rich for what, 72 hours, and already people like nancy pelosi are saying we have to tax the middle class, and by the way, that's where the money is. you just said, erin, if you want the money, you have to go after the middle class. >> let me just say -- no, no, the rich among us, the wall street journal editorial page probably thinks the middle class starts around, what, $500,000 a year? >> the president thinks it's $30,000 a year. >> i'm going to hit pause, but we'll have you both back because this topic is not going away. and now our third story "outfront," reliving the horror in aurora. today, police officers recalled the details of the movie theater shooting that left 12 dead. one officer said james holmes was very relaxed after the shooting. this case could hinge on holmes' mental health. it is a topic we have covered a lot on "outfront" with these horrific shootings that happened last year. ed lavendera is following the case outside the courthouse in colorado. a tough day for the officers to come and have to relive this and recount what they saw.

what did their testimony tell us about holmes' mental state? >> hi, erin. it was significant because this is really the first time we have heard from the officers who made this initial arrest of james holmes. and there were several things that i thought stood out. this is going to be at the end here a struggle between premeditation, how much of this did james holmes deliberately plan out and obviously what the defense will be trying to do in the coming months as they head toward trial is plant the seeds about whether or not mental health issues came into play here. one of the things i thought was interesting we learned about today is james holmes purchased the ticket for the movie, the dark knight rises, july 8th, 12 days before the movie premiered here at the aurora theater. the ticket was on his cell phone. they showed video of james holmes walking into the theater and he scanned it. moments later, the video would show the stampede of people rushing to get out. we also heard from the officers who approached him, who

initially thought he was all decked out from ankle to head body armor, and they thought he was one of them, a fellow s.w.a.t. officer. it wasn't until some of these officers got closer and realized he wasn't acting like any other officer at the scene that they knew they had their suspect, and they said he never put up any resistance. one of the officers that initially handcuffed him said he looked spaced out, appeared to be staring out into space. but at the same time, appeared fully aware of everything going on around him. >> and what are we going to learn this weekend about his mental state since that will be so crucial as to he's fit to stand and what the punishment could be? >> if you have been following this case closely, we have learned over the last few months that james holmes had some contact with a psychiatrist at the university of colorado where he had just dropped out, and university of denver, excuse me, and that was a woman by the name of lynn fenton. so far, her discussions with him have been protected by patient privacy laws, and a big question as to whether or not we'll hear any details of their

conversations. there is that witness, whether or not she's testify this week still remains unclear. there are also two other mystery witnesses we have learned in a previous hearing that defense attorneys want to call. we don't know what they will say as well. that whole issue of mental health issues and how that will play into the defense still hasn't been played out. it will be up to the defense and when they make that determination, if they introduce that as their defense, all this will open up and prosecutors will be able to question specifically that psychiatrist and their conversations and get a much better picture of what led to all of this. until that happens, a lot of this is closed off to prosecutors and they're unable to get that information. >> ed lavendera. we'll be talking to him throughout the week. "outfront" next, new jersey governor chris christie gets high marks from voters in new jersey. and why that might be enough to sweep him into the white house in 2016.

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welcome back to the second half of "outfront." we start with stories we care about where we focus on reporting from the front line. first, compared to chuck hagel for defense secretary, will president obama's nomination of john brennan as defense

the next cia director be met with less controversy? you might not be so sure. they once derailed nomination in 2009 because of his support for harsh interrogations. cnn national security analyst peter bergen points out he was the architect of the drone policy which has been controversial in places like pakistan and yemen. that's likely to be a topic of conversation in the brennan hearing. the bureau of investigative journalism estimate that is american drones have killed as many as 171 civilians in yemen since 2002. the real story is in pakistan where nearly 1,000 people have been killed, civilians, since 2004 by american drones. >> secretary of state hillary clinton is back at work after being hospitalized for three days. after doctors found a blood clot in between her skull and brain. the staff welcomed her back to work today with fitting gifts. a football helmet, a jersey with the the 112, which symbolizes the number of countries she's visited as secretary of state.

even if clinton's blood clot is still present, dr. david deaton tells "outfront" it can be regulated with medication. and an "outfront" update on a story we have been following. french actor gerard depardieu met with french president vladimir putin over the weekend. the president gave him a passport and he was reportedly offered a job, i'm not joking here, to be cultural minister, but apparently he declined. he seeks russian citizenship after hollande's plan to raise taxes in france. it's been 522 days since america lost its top credit rating. what are we doing to try to get it back? today the bipartisan policy center said the united states will start defaulting between february 15th and march 1st. happy valentine's day, china, unless congress raises its debt ceiling.

>> our fourth story, president christie? new jersey's governor got a big stamp of approval. there was a poll that just came out, gave governor chris christie 73% approval rating among new jersey voters. that's really important and significant. the reason is because new jersey is a big "d" democrat state. went for president obama in each of the two past presidential elections. so is christie the biggest contender for 2016? all right, this is a guy that -- he says what he thinks, roland. he says what he thinks. let me start off because a lot of republicans, john, have been questioning his party loyalty after the aftermath of hurricane sandy because in the final days of the campaign, he appeared with and complimented president obama. and then afterwards, he got very angry about the vote, right? and he slammed john boehner. loving obama, hating boehner, here he is.

>> our delegation asked for a meeting with the speaker at that time. they were refused. i called the speaker four times last night after 11:20, and he did not take my calls. so you have to ask the speaker. it's just -- it is why the american people hate congress. >> when the president does things that deserve praise, i will give him praise. and when the president does things that deserve scorn, i'll give him scorn. >> you know what, he should work with bob hand and his job, our producer. he's the kind of guy who would call someone four times after 11:20 and if they don't answer the phone, he'll say, answer the phone. >> he's an independent guy, that's why the polls are doing so well. it upsets the hyperpartisans, they're upset with christie. there are members of the romney camp that somehow blame him for losing the election, but that's precisely what makes so many centrists and people across the

board like chris christie. if they don't like it, great, they're irrelevant in the grand scheme of things except in their own chattering class. >> i'm looking at you. >> let's hear it. >> christie has, quote, lost some of his luster on the right. how much damage has he done? after all, the guy has to win a primary? >> that's true, but you have to work the angles, erin. the possibility is he's not going to be the conservative stalwart champion. there are going to be a lot of people competed for the role. if there are five or six guys competing to the be the conservative stalwart champion who comes right down the middle and is like, hey, i'm a different kind of republican, i appeal to swing voters. i can actually win this election for you in a tough environment. hold your noses, vote for me even if you're not 100%, and i can win the white house. that's how bill clinton won in 1992. he took on a ton of liberal constituencies, but because the democratic brand was damaged in '92, he was able to

distance himself from it to help democrats. >> much like the republican brand now. >> exactly. >> look, let me -- erin? >> yes, roland. >> last i checked, criticizing congress is not going to somehow hurt you with the american people. so governor christie is frankly walking on -- like jesus walking on water criticizing republicans and democrats in congress. but here's the other piece you have to keep in mind. we're four years away. this whole notion of what's going to happen, so many things could very well happen. but if chris christie is able to reach out to grassroots folks, he's all about trying to appeal to republicans in congress, republican governors. it's about appealing to grassroots people. if he's able to show that kind of enthusiasm, that kind of energy, that's actually going to drag other people along. >> i remember his speech at the ronald reagan library, and the woman who asked him the

question, he was very presidential in that speech. but there are times, and i think he would be the first to admit it, when, you know, saying what he thinks is much more important than being a statesman. let's just play some of them for all of you. >> the people who pretend to be serious commentators who have wrote about this are among the most ignorant people i have ever heard in my whole life. >> let me tell you something, i can go back and forth with you as much as you want. and let me tell you something, after you graduate from law school, you talk like that in the court room, your rear end is going to be thrown in jail. >> if what you want to do is put on a show and giggle every time i talk, i have no interest in answering your question. so if you would like to -- [ applause ] >> as we're giggling. >> and -- >> and? >> there's a big problem, which is chris christie's style is very appealing to people like me who grew up in brooklyn, new york, people in the northeast who like that kind of ethnic tough guy, but the question is is it going to play in the south and the west with people who find that to be a bullying tone?

>> whoa, whoa. >> i think it could work but it's not obvious it's going to work. it works with some people but not necessarily everyone. >> whoa, time-out. as a native texan, we don't mind people who speak truth. let's be honest. it's not all about a northeast thing. the key here is are you authentic politician? do you speak your mind? and this is something who is established. he will take it to republicans. he will take it to democrats. that is appealing to people because frankly people are tired of politicians who keep lying, who keep saying what they think we want to hear versus what we need to hear. >> he is genuine. >> he is, and people are starved for authenticity in politics, erin. they're also starved for independent leadership that is principle to no holds barred. take a look at the poll today. if we break down the numbers it's unbelievable because it's not just 73% of new jersians. 80% of independents. 62% of democrats, 69% of nonwhites, and 70% of women. republicans have to be sitting in a room plotting -- >> like the messiah.

>> unbelievable. that shows a crossover appeal for that kind of independent leadership. republicans are looking at that playbook and saying they need more of that. >> let's see what he looks like after all that super pac money goes after him. >> thanks to all three of you. by the way, chris christie's comment to the "star-ledger" in the state, yeah, you're damn right i would be more ready when asked about running for 2016. sure looks like he is running. ahead, new details about the sandy hook shooting. what adam lanza was wearing in the shooting spree. we just found out today. and protests in india over the rape of the woman who died. fare fareed zakaria calls it india's arab spring. but you're not alone. i knew you'd come. like i could stay away. you know i can't do this without you. you'll never have to. you're always there for me. shh! i'll get you a rental car. i could also use an umbrella. fall in love with progressive's claims service.

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new details tonight in the connecticut school massacre investigation. the hartford current reports that gunman adam lanza wore ear plugs in the shooting spree at sandy hook elementary school in which 26 were killed including 20 children. john lender, who broke the story for the hartford current. thanks for taking the time. you report he wore ear plugs. do you know why? >> no one knows why. we're down in the point of the investigation now where they don't -- they haven't figured out what's happened, but we have these strange details that are left behind by this very strange bone-thin 20-year-old. and one of them is that he went into the school to do this, and he put in these ear plugs. and the investigators don't know why. they have noted it.

they were found, and why would he be wearing ear plugs? it makes you think that maybe he -- there's no reason to think he thought he would come out alive and needed to protect his hearing. they think it might be a force of habit from shooting or even the idea maybe that he wanted to muffle the cries of the children. >> now, is it, as you mentioned, there's possible ways you could imagine why he did this, but if it were something linked to the shooting range, would that show he had got more frequently than we thought or perhaps give some sort of a clue as to his mental state or someone with an obsess active personality or something? when i go shooting, i will go ahead and put these ear plugs? >> it could be anything. there are just a number of these things that are left behind as puzzles. just for another example, he kept changing magazines. 30-round magazines, in this military style weapon that he

was using. even though he hadn't even used half the bullets in a magazine. now, he had a lot of these violent death shooting games that he played at home. and we're told that when you play those games, one of the things you do is when you go from one animated building to another or another room, you don't want to be short of ammunition, so you replenish your full supply. there was some thought, they're testing to see if the gun jammed on him. there was one point at which it jammed once or twice or his shooting paused, and it allowed a few kids, apparently, to get out of one of the rooms in which the murders were committed. >> all right, well thank you very much. we appreciate it. as you say, every single detail here getting intense focus as no one could understand what the motive would have been. next, protests in india over the gang rape of a woman. fareed zakaria calls it india's arab spring. he comes "outfront." make you feel alive.will

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our fifth story "outfront," chaos in the court. five men charged with the brutal rape and murder of a 23-year-old indian woman appeared in court today. there was a shouting match that erupted because a lawyer stepped forward to represent the accused and he was criticized by his colleagues. in fact, one of them screamed, i'll quote them, you will not defend these barbarians. they're charged with kidnapping, rape, and murder in a case that has led to outrage around the world.

fareed zakaria was born in india india, and he's "outfront" tonight. this has grabbed attention around the world, headlines everywhere. i was just in the middle east, top story everywhere. you came from india. it is such a crucial story. why has it struck a cord around the world? >> in a way, this is india's arab spring because it's not just what happened. it's the fact that people were able to express themselves. mobilize. india is a democracy, but sometimes it's hard to mobilize and social media and a newly mobilized middle class has allowed that to happen. i think people around the world saw that and could almost join in that outrage because the sense of just how horrible this was and how quickly the information about it spread, it really made me feel like this is a new world because you had protests like this before, but they hadn't spread within india in quite the same way, and they hadn't spread around the world. you know, there is something

about this new technology with the new globalized middle class that is demanding more of government. >> and there are some shocking truths. the washington post had done a piece on the police issue in india, how there aren't enough women police officers. they say three quarters of the perpetrators of rapes in india in 2011, reported rapes, are still at large, and the police chief in delhi, after this horrific rape in which this young woman lost her life, his solution was, quote, women should not go out late at night, and there was an indian media reporting the victim was to blame because she hadn't reached out to her attackers as brothers and she should have begged for them to stop. >> india remains a very patriarchal society. it is an odd country. on one hand, it had a female prime minister. >> and to the world, we see that as poster child. >> then if you look at the social attitudes within the household, women remain very

much, almost the servants of the husbands and things like that. i think it's very important to remember in these situations that rape is really about power, not about sex. and the ability for people to maintain this kind of power, control over women, is still very much part of india, and what is striking to me is that even though it is a democracy, even though 50% of the people who vote are women, it hasn't changed. >> which is amazing and shows the problem goes all the way back to how you raise children from being infants. but people in the u.s. are shocked by this. and there's a lot of the feeling that this wouldn't happen here. it may amaze people depending on what statistic you look at, the united states is either the top or in the top couple countries in the world for rapes, rapes still underreported in the united states, and in the united states like india, people still blame the victim. i was thinking of the todd akin comment, his quote, i'll read it again for those of you who forgot it, if it's a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down.

>> this is again all about the idea that there's something about this that's about sex. it isn't. this is about power, this is about violence towards women. violence towards people who are in general weaker than you. you know, it's very important that people understand that. in the united states, as you point out, we -- rape is underreported, but it's vastly more underreported in india. my guess is if you were to take the actual numbers, the united states wouldn't be quite as far ahead as it is, but it's shocking that the united states is even, you know, within the top ten. >> right, where you have women who are earning as much as men and women with careers, you have all of these things here and you still have that statistic. in terms of women's rights, they record the gap is 105th out of 135 countries. that is the gap in economic, health, education. why is india lagging so far behind? especially when you talk about democracy and women are able to vote, which is something, for example, in places like saudi arabia, which also ranks low,

women don't have this right? >> it makes you realize the struggle for human rights and democracy are not always the same thing. sometimes what you have to do is break cultural attitudes. democracies aren't very good at that. look at us with some of our attitudes, whether it's slavery or whatever you're looking at. it's hard to break those attitudes. in some ways, china did much better even under the communists in creating this equal opportunity for men and women. in india, this comes out of religion, out of caste, out of culture. the people who get elected are sometimes traditional leaders. they don't want to overturn these traditions. it's very hard to get oppressed minorities to be given their due. >> fareed zakaria, thank you very much. be sure to catch a special edition of "gps" on sunday, focusing on the president's second term. he gets advice on how the president should handle the challenges he'll be facing over the next four years. "memo to the president, roadmap for a second term."

it airs sunday night at 8:00 p.m. tomorrow, padma lakshmi is "outfront." the former model who was born in india and spent a lot of time there, she spends a lot of time there and speaks out for the first time about the rape and her country. >> and we're moments away from the biggest college football game of the year. what? [ male announcer ] alka-seltzer plus severe cold and flu fights your worst flu symptoms, plus that cough. [ sighs ] thanks!... [ male announcer ] you're welcome. that's the cold truth! ♪ [ indistinct shouting ] [ male announcer ] time and sales data.

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after weeks and months of games and preparation and practice, the big one, the bcs championship is finally here. notre dame and alabama are taking the field. it's easy to get caught up in the hype surrounding tonight's contest because the experts predict it's going to be the most viewed college football game in history. notre dame and alabama football are massive money machines. each program generates about $100 million for their school and conference a year. when you get past the ratings and money, for me, it's about connecting with some of the players' stories. that's what i love about college football. there are a few inspiring personal stories, but perhaps none as much so as that of stephon tuitt. he's a defensive end for the notre dame fighting irish. this is his sophomore season. it's brought him all-american honors and a trip to the championship all while ta